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In Shock
I just posted this over on the blog at Democrats.org.
I'm honestly almost in tears right now.
I hope that I will not be abused for posting this.
I've been a proud Democrat and progressive all my life. And I've been passionate about it - very much so, believe me.
This morning I've been trying to come to terms with the abolition of habeus corpus, the legalization of torture, and the retroactive indemnification against prosecution for war crimes of all members of the Bush administration.
I've been trying to understand what it's going to be like, living in a country which has given the President the LEGAL power to kidnap, imprison for life, and even torture to death anyone he pleases, without the slightest danger of ever being called to account. He can do this to any American citizen, entirely at his option. No one may question him. There are no checks or balances. He has more power than any king.
And my party stood by. They cast their "nay" votes - all but twelve traitors to their oaths of office - but they knew full well that they were going to lose.
Why didn't they filibuster?
I suppose...I fear that it was because they were afraid that if they filibustered, the Republicans would use that against the party. News flash: Bush and the Republicans are using that against the Democrats ANYWAY. They already have, this morning. And no one, no one who knows anything about modern politics can honestly claim to be surprised.
Any one senator could have filibustered. None did. I still can't get my mind around it. What happened? Please, what happened? It's like a nightmare.
I don't see any way around it. The Democratic Party no longer stands for the ideals I believe in - the ideals of basic human rights for all citizens. And so, with great sadness and even more fear for the future, I just called my local Board of Canvassers and have requested disenrollment forms for myself and my family.
I see no way around it. The party has left me. And it let America die. Disenrolling is almost totally meaningless, I know...but how can I remain in a party that won't even stand up for the right to not be tortured, for every citizen to get their day in court?
I was a proud Democrat all my life. I hoped to remain one forever. I can't tell you how sad I am that this has happened to our country, and to our party.
I'm honestly almost in tears right now.
Follow-ups
BlueinIdaho wrote:
It doesn't. I see no way to help myself, or them, or this country. I wish I could, but I can't.
I have a son. He's the most precious thing in my life. This is not the world I want to leave for him. If there was something I could do, I'd do it. I've tried for many years now, but wasn't able to stop this day from coming.
But please tell me why I should remain in a party that will not stand up for even the most basic human rights? Habeus corpus, for god's sake! Torture! How can I stay in a party that won't speak out about that? How can ANYONE sane think for ONE SECOND that it made sense not to stand up in the Senate and say "NO. Not this. This is not American."? Even if cloture passed, even if they went down to defeat...what the hell does victory at the polls gain them now? A junior piece of the pie in a dictatorship?
Where was Ted Kennedy? John Kerry? Russ Feingold? ANY of them? Please, please, please explain it to me.
ER wrote:
Are you serious? They're complicit in allowing TORTURE and you seriously expect me to support them? Why? On what basis?
Look, it's not like I'm mad because they won't support something esoteric, like public financing of elections or equal national funding for all schools. This is habeus corpus and torture. Just how low ARE your standards? Just how little do you EXPECT from party members, from your elected representatives?
If this isn't a betrayal of their oaths of office, what is?
Perhaps you haven't noticed, but the ACLU is undergoing a serious crisis. But in any case, I'm one of those little people who lives under a load of debt. I don't have anything to give but my time, and there's precious little of that. But I do what I can.
Does being poor mean that I don't have the right to an opinion or voice? Am I less of a citizen? Less of a party member?
I do what I can. I always vote, and do my best to be informed. I've attended campaign dinners and rallies. I talk to candidates. I sign petitions. I write letters to the editor, and to my representatives. I used to write articles for sites like Democratic Underground, Bartcop, and Media Whores Online. Every relative I have is as passionately Democratic as I am - even my in-laws.
Just what more do you want me to do?
And...look, I don't like to say this, but NO DEMOCRATIC SENATOR was willing to filibuster. So far I have yet to hear ANY acceptable explanation why. I've given as much as I could to the party for my whole life. And now they've accepted torture and the loss of habeus corpus.
Where does it stop? I'll continue to vote Democratic, but why should I be a member of a party that did less than it could have to oppose torture? And they're committing political suicide into the bargain!
More thread
dk2 wrote:
As I said before, I have a son. Crawling into a hole is not an option. Nor can I stop trying to make it better, futile though those efforts seem to be; I'm just not wired to let the world go to hell without a fight.
But the leadership of the Democratic Party doesn't seem to be interested in this fight. There doesn't seem to be anything - ANYTHING - that they're willing to stand up about and say "No. Not this. I would rather die than see this happen to our country."
I believe that Howard Dean is a good man, and that his heart is in the right place. But he's only one man. There are a few other Democrats who I respect and trust - Barney Frank, for example. But I simply cannot get my head around the fact that NOT ONE DEMOCRATIC SENATOR was willing to filibuster. Not one.
And this isn't the first time this sort of thing has happened, either - look at the 2000 and 2004 elections, for starters. What does it take for the party leadership to say "Enough"? I can't escape the conclusion that there's NOTHING they'll stand up for. Somehow the party of FDR has turned into...this.
It's not just a betrayal, it's pure political idiocy. It makes no sense to me, not on any level. This clearly isn't my Democratic Party any more.
Oh, on a low level - people like most of the posters here - I'm with you. We're on the same page, you and I. And I'll keep on voting Democratic, no question. But I can't stay a member of a party that tacitly allows torture, that didn't fight to its UTMOST to save habeus corpus.
Those simply aren't my values. My father and grandparents fled a country like that, and I can't stomach the idea of being a member of an organization that allowed those things to happen here.
ER wrote:
Well, as I said before I'll continue to vote Democratic. I was never one of those Nader supporters, and believe me, I'd NEVER vote for a third party candidate unless I was sure they had a good chance to win and wouldn't act as a spoiler.
If they really opposed it, they would have filibustered. Period. Does that mean I'm going to vote Republican? Never. But I'm not going to stay on the rolls of a party that won't defend basic human decency, my basic human rights as a citizen, the rights of my son, or THEMSELVES.
Yes.
It would be better to commit political suicide than to go along with a bill like this. Because either way, the bill would be rammed through; but at least history would judge the Democrats kindly, and the world would know that SOME Americans, at least, were willing to take a stand.
But why are you so sure that it would be political suicide to oppose torture and support habeus corpus? Is it impossible that a principled stand might actually HELP Democrats at the polls, instead of hurting them? I don't know, but I would love to find out.
Dear God - are you serious? Are you not aware of Bush v. Gore? Or of the many other insane ruling which have proceeded from the Supreme Court? Not to mention the strong chance that Bush will get to replace yet another moderate justice with a right-wing supporter of the Imperial Presidency, thereby creating a 5-vote majority which could last twenty years of longer, and probably much longer?
If you or the Democratic senators are relying on the Supreme Court to save us all, I believe you'll have a very painful lesson soon.
And so will we all.
Thread Part 3
As I said before, I'll still vote Democratic. And when there's a choice, I'll vote for the more honest and progressive Democrat in the primaries. I live and vote in Rhode Island, so my primary candidates usually lose - the machine in RI is very powerful and very corrupt.
They recently ran someone against a seated Democratic state representative to punish him for trying to unseat a powerful mayor. He lost.
Just to clarify, a progressive, SEATED Democratic state rep was defeated by the state Democratic party machine for the crime of trying to unseat a corrupt mayor.
But that's beside the point. I'll continue to vote Democratic. The party isn't losing my vote. It's losing me (and possibly my wife) as a member. Here in Rhode Island, that means less than nothing.
But it means something to me. I have a problem with torture, you see. I don't like it.
Thread Part 4
HybridFuel wrote:
You don't understand.
It doesn't matter if you're an American citizen or not any more. I'm still looking for the text of the bill itself, but read this article from the LA Times for more information: http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-ackerman28sep28,1,1031691.story?ctrack=1&cset=true
Here's an excerpt (emphasis added):
"The compromise legislation, which is racing toward the White House, authorizes the president to seize American citizens as enemy combatants, even if they have never left the United States. And once thrown into military prison, they cannot expect a trial by their peers or any other of the normal protections of the Bill of Rights."
goodfoe wrote:
I'm sorry, but she did. She's taking you for a sucker. Because it doesn't matter what she said, and it doesn't matter how she voted. Before she ever voted, she knew that the Republicans had the votes to win this thing.
The only way to even slow it down was a filibuster. She could have stood up on the Senate floor and made a statement. She could have at least TRIED to stop this tragedy from happening to America. A filibuster was the only way.
She didn't do it. Not one Democrat did it. Nor did any Republican. She stood by, cast her symbolic "nay", said some flowery words, and let this be done to all of us, and to the Constitution.
And now? If George W. Bush wants, he can pick her or ANYONE - anyone in the entire world, American citizen or not - have them secretly taken away, imprisoned for life, and tortured to death.
And here's the funniest part: it will be LEGAL for him to do that.
So tell me, what was Hillary thinking? That she could trust George W. Bush and Dick Cheney not to abuse that power? That the Supreme Court would overturn the bill - the same Supreme Court which hijacked the 2000 election?
I'll tell you what she was thinking. She was thinking that if she filibustered, the Republicans would scream to high heaven and her chance to win the Presidency in 2008 would be reduced. She thought of her own political power, her own selfish interests, before the good of her country and her oath of office.
And the same thing is true of every other Senator in Congress.
Wake up. No one is going to save us now. The door is open, and the wolf is among the lambs. With the sheepdogs at his side, maintaining a properly pious look of regret...and waiting for their share of the meat.
Thread Part 5
There was no cloture vote because no one tried to filibuster. Not one.
That's pretty much the epitaph of American Democracy, you know. Right now your only hope is to pray that George W. Bush and Dick Cheney don't decide to abuse that power...because nothing and no one is standing in their way.
This is not fiction. This is not a dream. You and ALL of us have lost the most basic human rights. And the people who should have tried to stop that from happening...didn't.
rjsnj wrote:
My understanding is that cloture only takes place if a filibuster is attempted. It's not required for every bill. No filibuster, no cloture needed.
If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will tell me.
But anyway, no one filibustered. They didn't even threaten to.
rjsnj wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloture
Wikipedia indicates otherwise. Not that it matters; this is just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. And the iceberg hit this morning.
I hope our laughing right-wing friends enjoy their dictatorship.
Thread Part 6
I've already said this several times, but I'll never vote Republican. That wouldn't make any sense at all.
I simply refuse to remain enrolled in a party of which NOT ONE Senator was willing to filibuster to preserve our most basic rights. Every Senator has violated their oaths of office. Yes, the Republicans are much worse, and no, I'll never vote for a Republican...but the Democrats in the Senate today have proved that they don't really care about habeas corpus, and that they are willing to stand by while the most irresponsible President in history is given the power to torture anyone in the world. Including they, themselves.
And it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Bush and Cheney started rounding up their political opponents soon.
But anyway, don't worry - I'm a safe Democratic vote. Besides, you've got bigger things to worry about, now.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2006-09-29 09:42 pm (UTC)(link)I'm doing my best to understand why not ONE Democratic Senator was willing to filibuster to preserve habeas corpus and forbid torture. These are basic human rights; if ever a filibuster was called for, this was the time.
And every single Senator failed to uphold the Constitution. They could have filibustered; they didn't.
In all conscience I cannot continue to be a member of a party that will allow torture and the abolition of habeas corpus. I have requested disenrollment forms from my local Board of Canvassers.
I didn't leave the party. The party I grew up with would have fought to save habeas corpus. They would have stood up against torture. They wouldn't have just cast a cosmetic "nay" vote and made a few flowery, disapproving speeches for the benefit of the base.
I didn't leave the party. The party left me.
no subject
I suppose that I'm not so upset because:
1. Pretty much everything I've seen indicates that the Demos have a fair chance of getting one or both houses of Congress. Even with folk who are barely Democrats amongst that lot, things will get very interesting next year. I see little to be gained now in saying "We're doomed, everybody else is stupid or weak, and nothing can be done."
2. Filibusters are, well, a Bug that's been promoted to a Feature. The idea really is that the Senate is supposed to allow for Free and Unlimited debate, but Senators figured out that they could talk bills to death. The Cloture rule was added to limit what is, in all honesty, an abuse of the rules. Frankly, the Filibuster should have been done away with years ago; what it does it makes it so bills really have to have a "supermajority" to pass. Mind you, some bills and maybe some other actions should require a supermajority and some (treaties) already do, but it shouldn't be sitting as an option for any bill or any action.
3. I seriously doubt that every single Democrat had an attack of cowardice; they aren't all running for re-election after all. I suspect that they made a professional assessment and decided there was little to be gained by doing a short-lived filibuster when they've already spoken out against it. Let's not make an extreme assumption that electing to not do a filibuster means that every Democrat Senator is a weeeny wimp who wants to kiss Dubya's feet or something.
Urgh, that probably looks harsh. Not really wanting harsh. I just don't think that things are hopeless, and I'm not noted for being an optimist all that much.
no subject
And of course the sex scandal, the revelation that Jack Abramoff had lots of contact with administration people, and Bob Woodruff's book noting the lies about the war would seem to pile up to be more important than a filibuster that would have been little more than a little-noted protest.
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The real problem, frankly, is that close to a fourth of the Demo Senators voted for this thing and thus would have voted for cloture. The Democrats against the law had the choice of maybe slightly reducing the evil of it and getting it out of the way quickly or just playing right into Karl Rove's handbook. This bill wasn't about giving Dubya torture rights as much as it was about making the GOP look like hairy chested macho terrorism fighters, and the GOP folk know damned good and well that they could push it through for this purpose. Getting Democrat supporters to freak is icing on the cake. The Democrats had a losing situation here; maybe they could and will get some mileage out of getting the GOP recognized as the Party of Torture but Average Joe doesn't care if a supposed terrorist gets beat up, alas, until they understand that it can happen to them.
no subject
I'll send the same thing to my other Senator, Lincoln Chaffee, except I'll take out the "I have voted for you", because I haven't.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2006-10-03 03:18 am (UTC)(link)P.s. I love Bush, he's so going to destroy and ruin USA and whoever from the Bush faction succeeds him to precidency (possibly 2012, some democrat might win 2008. Yeah right.) will finish the job. I'm really going to enjoy watching something BIG go down. (I know, I'm a rotten person.)
"No great nation is conquered from without, until it has destroyed itself from within."
Freely qouted (can't remember precise wording) from the movie 'The Fall of the Roman Empire'.