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Askville Posts #15: The Supernatural
Feb. 20th, 2008 03:26 pmA post from the discussion thread for the question "Do you believe in any supernatural beings? (GOD COUNTS!)"
Antony Flew? I hadn't heard of him until several Christians started mentioning him. Then I did a little research.
He's quite an old man - 84 - and didn't publicly express deist views until he was 81. Apparently there is some question as to his mental competence, although of course that could certainly be just an attempt to discredit his conversion. Still, it wouldn't be at all surprising for an old man with fading mental powers to be vulnerable to pressure and/or the fear of death.
I also note that a number of well-known atheists and freethinkers have been falsely claimed to have converted on their deathbeds - Darwin being the most famous example. Not that I doubt Flew's conversion, since it's a matter of public record. However, my understanding is that he has taken a deist view, not a specifically Christian one. You may know more about that than I do, Christian.
It really doesn't matter though. Unlike theists, most American atheists don't subscribe to a leader principle. Christians can swear up and down till they're blue in the face that Darwin, or Sagan, or Einstein, or Flew was (or is) really a Christian. But since atheists neither worship nor follow the religious dictates of ANY human being, the point is really irrelevant.
I don't believe because I don't believe. What others believe, or don't believe, has no effect on my own lack of faith.
As for many atheists becoming believers, I must point out that likewise, many believers have become atheists. Me, for example! Given the social pressure and childhood indoctrination that most Americans experience, it's amazing that there are as many atheists in this country as there are.
Regarding all the books you've been recommending: while I do enjoy this topic, I simply don't have the time to read all that. I've read the Bible many times; if that didn't speak to me (and it didn't) do you really expect some other book will? Particularly since you consider the Bible to be the Word of God - do you think a book written by mere men would be more effective than that?
My reading list is simply too full at the moment. We're finishing Doctor Dolittle's Post Office (359 pages!) and will soon be starting Jenny's Moonlit Adventure and then Doctor Dolittle's Circus. After that, the next Dolittle book will be waiting at the library. I'm booked ahead for months.
In any case, I made my spiritual quest. I read, and thought, and prayed extensively over the years as I made the transition from Christianity to agnosticism to atheism (well, I wasn’t praying in the agnosticism-to-atheism leg of the journey). I reached the answer that satisfied me; the answer that I feel and believe is the truth. I am willing to discuss and consider the issue - in fact, I enjoy it - but I am not going to spend time reading books in order to justify my disbelief in the supernatural.
Keeping up with Christian apologetics would be the full-time hobby of a lifetime. Since I believe that this is the only life I get, I'm not going to waste any more of it than I must.
I’ll still read what you have to say here, of course.
Antony Flew? I hadn't heard of him until several Christians started mentioning him. Then I did a little research.
He's quite an old man - 84 - and didn't publicly express deist views until he was 81. Apparently there is some question as to his mental competence, although of course that could certainly be just an attempt to discredit his conversion. Still, it wouldn't be at all surprising for an old man with fading mental powers to be vulnerable to pressure and/or the fear of death.
I also note that a number of well-known atheists and freethinkers have been falsely claimed to have converted on their deathbeds - Darwin being the most famous example. Not that I doubt Flew's conversion, since it's a matter of public record. However, my understanding is that he has taken a deist view, not a specifically Christian one. You may know more about that than I do, Christian.
It really doesn't matter though. Unlike theists, most American atheists don't subscribe to a leader principle. Christians can swear up and down till they're blue in the face that Darwin, or Sagan, or Einstein, or Flew was (or is) really a Christian. But since atheists neither worship nor follow the religious dictates of ANY human being, the point is really irrelevant.
I don't believe because I don't believe. What others believe, or don't believe, has no effect on my own lack of faith.
As for many atheists becoming believers, I must point out that likewise, many believers have become atheists. Me, for example! Given the social pressure and childhood indoctrination that most Americans experience, it's amazing that there are as many atheists in this country as there are.
Regarding all the books you've been recommending: while I do enjoy this topic, I simply don't have the time to read all that. I've read the Bible many times; if that didn't speak to me (and it didn't) do you really expect some other book will? Particularly since you consider the Bible to be the Word of God - do you think a book written by mere men would be more effective than that?
My reading list is simply too full at the moment. We're finishing Doctor Dolittle's Post Office (359 pages!) and will soon be starting Jenny's Moonlit Adventure and then Doctor Dolittle's Circus. After that, the next Dolittle book will be waiting at the library. I'm booked ahead for months.
In any case, I made my spiritual quest. I read, and thought, and prayed extensively over the years as I made the transition from Christianity to agnosticism to atheism (well, I wasn’t praying in the agnosticism-to-atheism leg of the journey). I reached the answer that satisfied me; the answer that I feel and believe is the truth. I am willing to discuss and consider the issue - in fact, I enjoy it - but I am not going to spend time reading books in order to justify my disbelief in the supernatural.
Keeping up with Christian apologetics would be the full-time hobby of a lifetime. Since I believe that this is the only life I get, I'm not going to waste any more of it than I must.
I’ll still read what you have to say here, of course.
