Religion and atheism

There's an interesting discussion going on over on Askville about religion. The asker's son is being indoctrinated by her fundamentalist mother-in-law, in violation of her stated wishes (and her husband's wishes, too).

"My inlaws are fundamentalist Christians and my husband and I are not."

One of the believers there brought up the old argument that atheists can't "know" that there is no God. My response:

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Atheists (most atheists - some may differ) say "There is no god" in the same way that a Christian says "There is no Zeus" or "There is no flying spaghetti monster". If disbelief in any imaginable entity required concrete proof of the non-existence of that entity, Christians would have to spend all of their lives trying to disprove the existence of the countless gods and other supernatural beings which have been dreamed up by humans over millennia. Not to mention the innumerable deities that could be imagined by people living today!

To suggest that disbelief in god(s) requires special proof of non-existence is to insist that belief in that god(s) is the default position - effectively, it is an attempt to force the non-believer to justify their non-belief based on the assumption that God is real. In other words, it's a classic "heads I win, tails you lose" argument. But it's not valid, as Christians show daily through their failure to justify their non-belief in any other god but their own.

Religion and atheism

There's an interesting discussion going on over on Askville about religion. The asker's son is being indoctrinated by her fundamentalist mother-in-law, in violation of her stated wishes (and her husband's wishes, too).

"My inlaws are fundamentalist Christians and my husband and I are not."

One of the believers there brought up the old argument that atheists can't "know" that there is no God. My response:

---

Atheists (most atheists - some may differ) say "There is no god" in the same way that a Christian says "There is no Zeus" or "There is no flying spaghetti monster". If disbelief in any imaginable entity required concrete proof of the non-existence of that entity, Christians would have to spend all of their lives trying to disprove the existence of the countless gods and other supernatural beings which have been dreamed up by humans over millennia. Not to mention the innumerable deities that could be imagined by people living today!

To suggest that disbelief in god(s) requires special proof of non-existence is to insist that belief in that god(s) is the default position - effectively, it is an attempt to force the non-believer to justify their non-belief based on the assumption that God is real. In other words, it's a classic "heads I win, tails you lose" argument. But it's not valid, as Christians show daily through their failure to justify their non-belief in any other god but their own.

GoodReads Review: The Exotic Enchanter

The Exotic Enchanter by L. Sprague De Camp

My review

rating: 2 of 5 stars

I rarely fail to finish a book. But I didn't finish this one.

It wasn't bad. It just got boring. And that was particularly disappointing, because I've been a big fan of the original Incomplete/Compleat Enchanter stories by Pratt and de Camp since I was a boy. Back then, that book was part of the secret lore of science fiction fans; "Yngvi is a louse!" was one of our passwords (not literally, mind you. I never belonged to an SF club).

But as with many classic series and novels, the series has been resurrected and given into the hands of writers of far less stature than the original creators.

For those not familiar with the original stories, they were the adventures of a modern (1940s) psychologist, Harold Shea, as he traveled through realms of various mythologies by means of a syllogismobile, an exercise in metaphysical logic created by his friend and colleague Reed Chalmers. Harold discovers that he can work magic through rhyme in many of those worlds, and his adventures are classics of light, humorous fantasy.

The Exotic Enchanter is the second volume of a modern continuation of that series, i.e. there was another modern-day sequel written before this one. It continues an ongoing story from the previous novel; I hadn't read that one, and the lack of sufficient explanation of events between the original book and Exotic was a definite flaw. It consists of four stories by different authors.

I made it though two and a half of them before returning the book to the library.

"Enchanter Kiev" by Roland J. Green and Frieda A. Murray was a pleasant surprise. I'm not familiar with either of those authors, and I tend to scowl at modern writers in general; standards have slipped badly since the old days. But "Enchanter Kiev" was a quite passable successor to the classic Enchanter stories. Green and Murray managed to capture the style of the original stories quite well.

Not so the next story, "Sir Harold and the Hindu King" by Christopher Stasheff. This was a surprise to me as well, but for the opposite reason. Stasheff's Warlock series had been fairly well-written (although not terribly memorable), and rather reminiscent of the original Enchanter series. But his style in this story was leaden and painful. It limped, a soggy and awkward attempt to duplicate de Camp and Pratt's light, amusing style. It was repetitious, and oddly false to the original character concepts. All in all, quite a disappointment.

I hate to say it, but "Sir Harold of Zodanga" by L. Sprague de Camp was also a disappointment. It wasn't awful, but it simply made no impression on me whatsoever: reading it soon became a dull chore. I was sorry to see that the sole remaining author of the original (he has since died) wasn't able to maintain the style or humor of the series. Fletcher Pratt may simply have been irreplacable.

It was with something of a sense of relief that I returned the book to the library unfinished. Perhaps some day, if I'm terribly desperate, I'll try it again...but I doubt it.

In a fractional system, I'd give this one 1.5 stars. If it had all been as good as the first story, it would get 2.5 or even 3.

View all my reviews.

GoodReads Review: The Exotic Enchanter

The Exotic Enchanter by L. Sprague De Camp

My review

rating: 2 of 5 stars

I rarely fail to finish a book. But I didn't finish this one.

It wasn't bad. It just got boring. And that was particularly disappointing, because I've been a big fan of the original Incomplete/Compleat Enchanter stories by Pratt and de Camp since I was a boy. Back then, that book was part of the secret lore of science fiction fans; "Yngvi is a louse!" was one of our passwords (not literally, mind you. I never belonged to an SF club).

But as with many classic series and novels, the series has been resurrected and given into the hands of writers of far less stature than the original creators.

For those not familiar with the original stories, they were the adventures of a modern (1940s) psychologist, Harold Shea, as he traveled through realms of various mythologies by means of a syllogismobile, an exercise in metaphysical logic created by his friend and colleague Reed Chalmers. Harold discovers that he can work magic through rhyme in many of those worlds, and his adventures are classics of light, humorous fantasy.

The Exotic Enchanter is the second volume of a modern continuation of that series, i.e. there was another modern-day sequel written before this one. It continues an ongoing story from the previous novel; I hadn't read that one, and the lack of sufficient explanation of events between the original book and Exotic was a definite flaw. It consists of four stories by different authors.

I made it though two and a half of them before returning the book to the library.

"Enchanter Kiev" by Roland J. Green and Frieda A. Murray was a pleasant surprise. I'm not familiar with either of those authors, and I tend to scowl at modern writers in general; standards have slipped badly since the old days. But "Enchanter Kiev" was a quite passable successor to the classic Enchanter stories. Green and Murray managed to capture the style of the original stories quite well.

Not so the next story, "Sir Harold and the Hindu King" by Christopher Stasheff. This was a surprise to me as well, but for the opposite reason. Stasheff's Warlock series had been fairly well-written (although not terribly memorable), and rather reminiscent of the original Enchanter series. But his style in this story was leaden and painful. It limped, a soggy and awkward attempt to duplicate de Camp and Pratt's light, amusing style. It was repetitious, and oddly false to the original character concepts. All in all, quite a disappointment.

I hate to say it, but "Sir Harold of Zodanga" by L. Sprague de Camp was also a disappointment. It wasn't awful, but it simply made no impression on me whatsoever: reading it soon became a dull chore. I was sorry to see that the sole remaining author of the original (he has since died) wasn't able to maintain the style or humor of the series. Fletcher Pratt may simply have been irreplacable.

It was with something of a sense of relief that I returned the book to the library unfinished. Perhaps some day, if I'm terribly desperate, I'll try it again...but I doubt it.

In a fractional system, I'd give this one 1.5 stars. If it had all been as good as the first story, it would get 2.5 or even 3.

View all my reviews.